Angels
Why did God make two sets of spiritual beings, but one with a physical component as well? Why does one only experience spiritual things and pleasures? Why do we suffer so much while the angels are always in God’s presence? (I don't want to give the impression that angels never suffer as well [Dn 10:13], but they do see God face-to-face, which cannot be anything but a great comfort.) Meanwhile, for some reason we're separated from him. (Gn 3:24) (Jb 38:4-7, Ezk 28:13-14, Gn 1:27, Lk 20:36, Mt 18:10)
Well, I can see that this is actually a more interesting question than I had first thought when I wrote it. This is because we can see a different history for the 2 types of beings, which I'll elaborate on later.
The most obvious answer to this question is that the UQ demands it, that there be 2 types of spiritual beings. Obviously, the angels are spiritual and we're physical. But that doesn't answer the question because the UQ is itself unanswerable. However, at least we can see this topic in a broader context because of it.
So now about the history of angels and humans. It seems that angelic history was a lot more "immediate" than human history, which is more gradual. And that makes sense given their respective spiritual and physical natures, the spiritual being grasped immediately, the physical gradually. So the fallen angels had their fall, and now work in human history to cause individual humans to fall. The angels who retained their place still retain it and therefore enjoy the companionship of God at all times. We, too, could have enjoyed God's companionship at any time, as in the Garden, but now in this fallen state such a thing has been reserved only for the saints and mystics.
About the angels only experiencing spiritual things and pleasures, I wonder if they feel like they're missing out on physical things and pleasures. But I guess this is something that can only be answered by asking an angel, which I don't have access to, so I can only hope that rational thought and spiritual inspiration might provide the answer someday.
What's the difference b/w an angel and human?
What I mean is, if a human is separated from their body (as at death), what makes them any different from an angel? Some kind of capacity? History? Origin? Purpose and end? All of these?
Should angels feel bad about forever being pure spirit?
God became man, but only God the Son. So do God the Father and God the Spirit feel bad about forever being pure spirit? Does God the Son feel about forever being human?
If God already knows what we are doing, why would angels have to come down to observe and report? (I Cor 11:10 & ESV note)
Why do the angels not have a savior? Why the difference? Why does God want it this way? What's the difference between fallen angels and the fall of man?
(Similar to what was discussed in the first question on this page, about angelic and human histories.)
Can angels take on a physical form? (Gn 18:2, 8-10; Heb 13:2)
In a physical battle, the outcome is determined by who’s physically stronger, and this is easy to quantify, being a physical thing, but how do you say who’s stronger spiritually, especially since in fact, we are always weaker than the enemy (Satan) and it’s only by God’s power that we accomplish anything? So how does God determine when he’s going to step in and end the battle? I think the system is artificial, actually, because of course God can obliterate the demons any time he wants. So we see that this cosmic battle isn’t based on any kind of strength at all, physical or spiritual. Then how can we say that there’s really a battle, since it’s not necessary? Sure, we can say that it’s to prove our mettle, but even in this case, when we fight, we’re working off of borrowed strength -- it’s not even our own, so how can we say that we’re fighting at all?
But even in a physical fight, it is often the will that can make the difference. (Dn 10:13, Mk 9:29)
First off, I want to clarify some things in the question. When I said, "since it's not necessary", "necessary" is from what I'll call an absolute perspective, or God's perspective. From God's point-of-view, nothing is really necessary. He didn't have to make the world. Nor does he need our help for anything. I'll elaborate on this more later. For now I'd like to make my 2nd clarification -- "it's not even our own". I think my thinking has come some way since I first thought of this question and typed it up, and that I didn't have a grasp of the UQ like I do now. So on one hand it's true that we're working off of borrowed strength, but on the other hand, it is our strength. Now we're talking about the tension and relationship between fate and free will, our cooperation with God, which is something I can't plumb the depths of, but I just didn't want any misunderstandings before I proceed with attempting an answer.
The first interesting point here is "how does God determine when he's going to step in and end the battle?" How does God weigh out when enough is enough? That is, how do you weigh out something spiritual? When is the time ripe? When are hearts prepared, or when has sin reached its limit? When has someone suffered enough, whether for their purification or for the satisfaction of justice? As Daniel says, "... when they [the saints] stumble, they shall receive a little help," (11:34) at the time when "[the fourth beast] shall wear out the saints of the Most High". (Dn 7:23, 25)
To a certain extent, it's true that the battle doesn't depend on strength, physical or spiritual. This is because to an infinite God of infinite power, is there any such thing as much or little? But that's what strength is, a measurement of much or little.
How can a demon be tormented? (Mk 5:7)
Actually, I have no idea, but for a similar question, see the question about the nature of the suffering of those condemned to Hell, in the Hell section.
What’s the spiritual difference (not “physical”) between cherubim and seraphim? (Is 6:2-3, 6; Ezk 10, Rv 4:6-8)
Apparently, even in the spiritual world, there's differences and distinctions, which ought to make sense considering that in the Kingdom of Heaven, even among the (human) saints, some will be great in the kingdom, and some the least in the kingdom. But this scale will all be based on the moral level attained in this life. With the cherubim and seraphim, it seems that the difference(s) between them must lie in either their characteristics, duties and responsibilities, or station, or most likely, all of these.
Difference between angels and humans when it comes to which side they’re on: angels, real clear-cut; humans, continuum.
We know that among angels, you're either on God's side or Satan's side, and there's no in the middle or switching back and forth, unlike humans. However, even among us humans, eventually we'll all be sorted out for the Kingdom of God or hell. This hearkens back to 2 other questions on this page about the history of angels and humans.
So why has everything already been decided and sorted out for angels? I've heard it said that this is because of their greater access and knowledge of God. This is somewhat plausible to me. This is because I think a major reason for what many call "the hiddenness of God" is due to the necessity of faith in this age (as opposed to the after life) to test us and allow us to make a true decision for God or against him. (You can read more about this in the Lazarus question on the Epistemology/Faith page under Philosophy.) But that begs the question, why only us and not them (ie, why does this testing of faith apply [seemingly] only to humans and not to angels)? Adam and Eve, our original parents, did in fact have direct access and knowledge of God, the way the angels (even the fallen angels) do. But what about the rest of us? A few lucky ones are privileged with divine visitations and experiences, but for the rest of us, the hiddenness of God holds true. This in itself is an interesting question, and you can explore something similar to it on the Grace vs Work page (the 1st question -- Why does God bother doing miracles at all?)
Furthermore, what was the nature of this fall of the angels? The bible doesn't really say. For such a momentous event (which I'm sure would make a great movie if we only knew how it went down), we only know the bare outlines of what happened. Was the rebellion immediate? Was it instantaneous? Was there some kind of negotiation or angels going back and forth between sides before some kind of final and binding decision was reached? Who knows? God knows.
What we (humans) know is that we too must make a similar decision, and we must make it before we die and are separated from our bodies, to be reunited with them (our bodies) only at the resurrection. In this life, there's lots of going back and forth between one side and the other. People are selling their souls and saving their souls everyday. Besides this, it can be hard (humanwise) to judge who's in which camp. Not that this has any bearing on whether it's difficult for God or not, but it's very interesting, often disturbing, that the same person can have both good and evil dwelling in them at the same time, whereas, for the fallen angels, I don't think there's any good in them at all. Nothing that I've ever read or heard has ever indicated this at all. Likewise, for the angels of God, do they ever stumble or sin? Not follow God's orders exactly? Can they mess up though no fault of their own, but from "angel error"? The bible doesn't really give any information about this either. So does this mean that the souls that end up condemned to hell will also be completely lost and evil, having nothing good and no light within them at all? I guess we won't know until the judgment. For sure those who will be purified and ushered into the Kingdom of God will be fully purified and made perfect, so does a similar transformation happen to the condemned, but in the opposite direction? But not everyone is equally evil. You have Satan as the greatest sinner of all time (and outside time), and you have the top human sinners of all time, like Judas Iscariot, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, etc. Then there will be people like the rich man in the story of Lazarus, who was condemned not because he went out of his way to hurt anyone, but through simple neglect of the poor and his disregard for paying attention to the Mosaic Law. But even he ended up in the flames. So just as there are degrees of perfection (in heaven), are there degrees of (perfect) corruption?
Well, I can see that this is actually a more interesting question than I had first thought when I wrote it. This is because we can see a different history for the 2 types of beings, which I'll elaborate on later.
The most obvious answer to this question is that the UQ demands it, that there be 2 types of spiritual beings. Obviously, the angels are spiritual and we're physical. But that doesn't answer the question because the UQ is itself unanswerable. However, at least we can see this topic in a broader context because of it.
So now about the history of angels and humans. It seems that angelic history was a lot more "immediate" than human history, which is more gradual. And that makes sense given their respective spiritual and physical natures, the spiritual being grasped immediately, the physical gradually. So the fallen angels had their fall, and now work in human history to cause individual humans to fall. The angels who retained their place still retain it and therefore enjoy the companionship of God at all times. We, too, could have enjoyed God's companionship at any time, as in the Garden, but now in this fallen state such a thing has been reserved only for the saints and mystics.
About the angels only experiencing spiritual things and pleasures, I wonder if they feel like they're missing out on physical things and pleasures. But I guess this is something that can only be answered by asking an angel, which I don't have access to, so I can only hope that rational thought and spiritual inspiration might provide the answer someday.
What's the difference b/w an angel and human?
What I mean is, if a human is separated from their body (as at death), what makes them any different from an angel? Some kind of capacity? History? Origin? Purpose and end? All of these?
Should angels feel bad about forever being pure spirit?
God became man, but only God the Son. So do God the Father and God the Spirit feel bad about forever being pure spirit? Does God the Son feel about forever being human?
If God already knows what we are doing, why would angels have to come down to observe and report? (I Cor 11:10 & ESV note)
Why do the angels not have a savior? Why the difference? Why does God want it this way? What's the difference between fallen angels and the fall of man?
(Similar to what was discussed in the first question on this page, about angelic and human histories.)
Can angels take on a physical form? (Gn 18:2, 8-10; Heb 13:2)
In a physical battle, the outcome is determined by who’s physically stronger, and this is easy to quantify, being a physical thing, but how do you say who’s stronger spiritually, especially since in fact, we are always weaker than the enemy (Satan) and it’s only by God’s power that we accomplish anything? So how does God determine when he’s going to step in and end the battle? I think the system is artificial, actually, because of course God can obliterate the demons any time he wants. So we see that this cosmic battle isn’t based on any kind of strength at all, physical or spiritual. Then how can we say that there’s really a battle, since it’s not necessary? Sure, we can say that it’s to prove our mettle, but even in this case, when we fight, we’re working off of borrowed strength -- it’s not even our own, so how can we say that we’re fighting at all?
But even in a physical fight, it is often the will that can make the difference. (Dn 10:13, Mk 9:29)
First off, I want to clarify some things in the question. When I said, "since it's not necessary", "necessary" is from what I'll call an absolute perspective, or God's perspective. From God's point-of-view, nothing is really necessary. He didn't have to make the world. Nor does he need our help for anything. I'll elaborate on this more later. For now I'd like to make my 2nd clarification -- "it's not even our own". I think my thinking has come some way since I first thought of this question and typed it up, and that I didn't have a grasp of the UQ like I do now. So on one hand it's true that we're working off of borrowed strength, but on the other hand, it is our strength. Now we're talking about the tension and relationship between fate and free will, our cooperation with God, which is something I can't plumb the depths of, but I just didn't want any misunderstandings before I proceed with attempting an answer.
The first interesting point here is "how does God determine when he's going to step in and end the battle?" How does God weigh out when enough is enough? That is, how do you weigh out something spiritual? When is the time ripe? When are hearts prepared, or when has sin reached its limit? When has someone suffered enough, whether for their purification or for the satisfaction of justice? As Daniel says, "... when they [the saints] stumble, they shall receive a little help," (11:34) at the time when "[the fourth beast] shall wear out the saints of the Most High". (Dn 7:23, 25)
To a certain extent, it's true that the battle doesn't depend on strength, physical or spiritual. This is because to an infinite God of infinite power, is there any such thing as much or little? But that's what strength is, a measurement of much or little.
How can a demon be tormented? (Mk 5:7)
Actually, I have no idea, but for a similar question, see the question about the nature of the suffering of those condemned to Hell, in the Hell section.
What’s the spiritual difference (not “physical”) between cherubim and seraphim? (Is 6:2-3, 6; Ezk 10, Rv 4:6-8)
Apparently, even in the spiritual world, there's differences and distinctions, which ought to make sense considering that in the Kingdom of Heaven, even among the (human) saints, some will be great in the kingdom, and some the least in the kingdom. But this scale will all be based on the moral level attained in this life. With the cherubim and seraphim, it seems that the difference(s) between them must lie in either their characteristics, duties and responsibilities, or station, or most likely, all of these.
Difference between angels and humans when it comes to which side they’re on: angels, real clear-cut; humans, continuum.
We know that among angels, you're either on God's side or Satan's side, and there's no in the middle or switching back and forth, unlike humans. However, even among us humans, eventually we'll all be sorted out for the Kingdom of God or hell. This hearkens back to 2 other questions on this page about the history of angels and humans.
So why has everything already been decided and sorted out for angels? I've heard it said that this is because of their greater access and knowledge of God. This is somewhat plausible to me. This is because I think a major reason for what many call "the hiddenness of God" is due to the necessity of faith in this age (as opposed to the after life) to test us and allow us to make a true decision for God or against him. (You can read more about this in the Lazarus question on the Epistemology/Faith page under Philosophy.) But that begs the question, why only us and not them (ie, why does this testing of faith apply [seemingly] only to humans and not to angels)? Adam and Eve, our original parents, did in fact have direct access and knowledge of God, the way the angels (even the fallen angels) do. But what about the rest of us? A few lucky ones are privileged with divine visitations and experiences, but for the rest of us, the hiddenness of God holds true. This in itself is an interesting question, and you can explore something similar to it on the Grace vs Work page (the 1st question -- Why does God bother doing miracles at all?)
Furthermore, what was the nature of this fall of the angels? The bible doesn't really say. For such a momentous event (which I'm sure would make a great movie if we only knew how it went down), we only know the bare outlines of what happened. Was the rebellion immediate? Was it instantaneous? Was there some kind of negotiation or angels going back and forth between sides before some kind of final and binding decision was reached? Who knows? God knows.
What we (humans) know is that we too must make a similar decision, and we must make it before we die and are separated from our bodies, to be reunited with them (our bodies) only at the resurrection. In this life, there's lots of going back and forth between one side and the other. People are selling their souls and saving their souls everyday. Besides this, it can be hard (humanwise) to judge who's in which camp. Not that this has any bearing on whether it's difficult for God or not, but it's very interesting, often disturbing, that the same person can have both good and evil dwelling in them at the same time, whereas, for the fallen angels, I don't think there's any good in them at all. Nothing that I've ever read or heard has ever indicated this at all. Likewise, for the angels of God, do they ever stumble or sin? Not follow God's orders exactly? Can they mess up though no fault of their own, but from "angel error"? The bible doesn't really give any information about this either. So does this mean that the souls that end up condemned to hell will also be completely lost and evil, having nothing good and no light within them at all? I guess we won't know until the judgment. For sure those who will be purified and ushered into the Kingdom of God will be fully purified and made perfect, so does a similar transformation happen to the condemned, but in the opposite direction? But not everyone is equally evil. You have Satan as the greatest sinner of all time (and outside time), and you have the top human sinners of all time, like Judas Iscariot, Mao, Stalin, Hitler, etc. Then there will be people like the rich man in the story of Lazarus, who was condemned not because he went out of his way to hurt anyone, but through simple neglect of the poor and his disregard for paying attention to the Mosaic Law. But even he ended up in the flames. So just as there are degrees of perfection (in heaven), are there degrees of (perfect) corruption?